why not do it in english? i can tranlate it into chinese later. we hav a friend in australia interested too.life are impermanence. i m not sure when some times will come. :p
Have you thought of balance? Chinese sayings and beliefs often mention Yin and Yang.
From my point of view, we need conscious and sub-conscious. In a way, its like YunYann said, we live in a community thus we need to consciously live in an 'orderly manner'. One more point to add to it is that human are born to live in a community manner. No man is an island. In a sub-conscious manner, man wants to relate to people. Therefore, consciously we learn and strive to live in harmony. Therefore, without 'refraining' ourselves to a certain extent, I reckon problems grow like self-centreness [where one blames the whole world for their own problems], destruction [like terroism?], divorces [where 'love' is gone and deserves to look for that 'someone who truely loves me'?], taking more than one needs [which indirectly creates the natural disruption of world climate changes etc].
On the other hand, over refraining oneself, like you said one regrets doing what they want to do and have not done. There would then be no any sort inventions like paper, computers, areoplanes. No discovery of 'new' land. No Singapore, no australia? And not to forget: No arts, no poems, no songs, no colours.
may be using angel n devil to explain conscious and sub-conscious is not a good move leading our discussion further n further. our definition of conscious and sub-conscious becoming more loose n it lead us to broader discussion n elaboration.
conscious or/and sub-conscious might not be the only reason of self-centreness, destruction, [terrorism?], divorces, taking more than one needs. over emphasis these might leads to over simplifying of individual, social or global issues.
i am quite sure that over refraining oneself will limit the creativity but m not sure it will leads to slow down in invention n modernisation (which i think modernisation is not a good thing itself).
IMHO(in my humble opinion), may be we shall go back to CS Jung for more info on conscious and sub-conscious.
嗯…… 很少去想得这么深入。
ReplyDelete个人是觉得,“意识界“的我们都在过着“群体居住“的生活(除非能够隐居深山,不与他人的生活产生任何交集),所谓的“社会价值观“都是需要遵守的吧?不要把它看成是一种束缚就好了啊!
也不用太刻意去压抑自己真正的想法(潜意识),反正“此处不留人,自有留人处“,世界那么大,一定有个能让自己的“意识"和“潜意识“相容的地方 =P
至少,我觉得现在的我还过得挺快乐的,呵呵~
也许是我的潜意识中,对生活并没有太多的要求,所以容易满足?
嘻嘻.....我那裡有那麼chiam?我如果不是要寫論文的話,我也不會想那麼多。這個是課堂上教授的教學。我只是用自己的話,把它重新整理,另外加入一些我自己的見解而已。
ReplyDelete如何過活,需要不需要遵守,都是意識界的問題,潛意識才不理會這些。快不快樂,滿足不滿足,爽不爽才是潛意識追求的事。
反正無意識是海底下的冰山,比我們想像中還深沉……
其實意識和無意識之間的運動(控制、壓抑、流轉),比較像是個人的修練或修行。雖然是個人的修行,我們的肉身還是需要存活在社會中(像yunyann說的,除非隱居深山),所以還是跟社會有關係。
ReplyDelete簡單的比喻,意識就像天使,講求道德,社會,群體,理智,是頭腦想的東西,而無意識就是魔鬼,只求自己的慾望,個人,需求,感性,是心裡深處的念頭。
所以yunyann提到需要“(遵守)”“(看)成是一种束缚”“(压抑)自己真正的想法”都是意識界的東西,和無意識無關。比較接的(可能只是接近而已)是最後一段講的滿足不滿足。
但是有時候,我們的意識會“假假”的欺騙我們的無意識,讓我們自己覺得真的滿足,其實真實的狀況並非如此。(想想我們生活中,想得到而得不到的,想做又沒有做的事情,一些在事後人後懊惱的人事物,你就會了解)
所以我才說,無意識是海底下的冰山,比我們想像中還深沉。
我還是需要多讀書 :(
哇~ 真的很chim啊!我还是不要想得那么深入比较好 =P
ReplyDelete反正现在的阶段,我过得还蛮开心的——至少到目前为止,我还没有事后非常懊悔的决定,呵呵~
你的問題問得好。我開始還不知道我在講甚麼東東,你的問題讓我進一步思考我的論點。其實有時候寫論文很寂寞,很須要局外人來問問題。不然的話,想和寫的東西就會走進死胡同,很多搞學術因為這樣,便生活在他們的象牙塔裡。
ReplyDelete所以,你有空真的要多多來攪局哦。
其實啊,人活得像你一樣開心就好了,有時候多想只是增加煩惱而已...
如果是搅局的话,我绝对可以做到! (很有信心的~)呵呵~
ReplyDelete如果你真的不小心走入死胡同,也许我可以试试看从外面把死角的墙都打碎,那么你就可以走出来了(讲得好像很容易似的…… =P)
對一般人來說,破壞需要勇氣,建立需要毅力。
ReplyDelete但是對我來說......反正就是遊戲人生,幹麻這樣認真... :p
這裡沒有對輿錯,只有說或不說,就多來玩玩啊,嘻嘻嘻...
正常 VS 不正常
ReplyDelete不了解你的意思,請指教。
ReplyDelete同感,虽然没真正写,只是自己兴趣,可是真的觉得是这样,局外人的问题或 spices 很重要。
ReplyDeleteWere you mentioning about intrinsic/extrinsic value? Sorry if I'm wrong.
ReplyDeleteno. should be concious n sub-concious i think.
ReplyDeleteZhongliang, I've got comments but couldn't type Chinese. Hope we can discuss this some time. :)
ReplyDeletewhy not do it in english? i can tranlate it into chinese later. we hav a friend in australia interested too.life are impermanence. i m not sure when some times will come. :p
ReplyDeleteHave you thought of balance? Chinese sayings and beliefs often mention Yin and Yang.
ReplyDeleteFrom my point of view, we need conscious and sub-conscious. In a way, its like YunYann said, we live in a community thus we need to consciously live in an 'orderly manner'. One more point to add to it is that human are born to live in a community manner. No man is an island. In a sub-conscious manner, man wants to relate to people. Therefore, consciously we learn and strive to live in harmony. Therefore, without 'refraining' ourselves to a certain extent, I reckon problems grow like self-centreness [where one blames the whole world for their own problems], destruction [like terroism?], divorces [where 'love' is gone and deserves to look for that 'someone who truely loves me'?], taking more than one needs [which indirectly creates the natural disruption of world climate changes etc].
On the other hand, over refraining oneself, like you said one regrets doing what they want to do and have not done. There would then be no any sort inventions like paper, computers, areoplanes. No discovery of 'new' land. No Singapore, no australia? And not to forget: No arts, no poems, no songs, no colours.
:)
先翻譯成中文。
ReplyDeletejennteo認為意識和潛意識和華人的陰陽調和的觀念相似。在潛意識中,我們想和其他人接觸,我們限制自己的行為,有意識地和他人和諧共處。但是她覺得如果刻意的限制自己,會壓抑人類的創造性,影響科技的發明和藝術的創作。
may be using angel n devil to explain conscious and sub-conscious is not a good move leading our discussion further n further. our definition of conscious and sub-conscious becoming more loose n it lead us to broader discussion n elaboration.
ReplyDeleteconscious or/and sub-conscious might not be the only reason of self-centreness, destruction, [terrorism?], divorces, taking more than one needs. over emphasis these might leads to over simplifying of individual, social or global issues.
i am quite sure that over refraining oneself will limit the creativity but m not sure it will leads to slow down in invention n modernisation (which i think modernisation is not a good thing itself).
IMHO(in my humble opinion), may be we shall go back to CS Jung for more info on conscious and sub-conscious.
可能開始用天使和魔鬼來解釋意識和潛意識是一個不恰當的方向,我們對於意識和潛意識的定義越來越寬鬆,討論的範圍也越來越廣。
jennteo事實上也提到沒有節制自己的意識?潛意識?可能會帶來自我中心、毀滅(恐怖主義?)、離婚、浪費資源。我的想法是,這會把複雜的個人、社會、全球問題過於簡單化。
我肯定過於限制自己的表現,會影響創造力和想像力。但是jennteo提到的這也使發明和現代化的步伐慢下來的看法,我有保留。況且我對於現代化全球化有所厭惡。
我想,對於意識和潛意識的意涵,我們可能要回到榮格的書裡頭去。